How we run....
So there is Limoges. In the Ocean of Lies you have to ask for intel...
what battle took place around limoges in the time of knights?
The major conflict that took place at Limoges during the age of knights was the [Siege of Limoges](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Limoges) in September 1370 during the [Hundred Years' War](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CvkDKq0Ao7O/). [1, 2, 3]
* The Conflict: English and French forces fought over control of the strategic town [Limoges](index:1.1.8, 1.1.9). [1, 4]
* The Leaders: The English army was led by [Edward the Black Prince](index:1.1.1, 1.1.10), who was so ill at the time that he had to be carried in a litter (stretcher). The city had earlier surrendered to the French under the [Duke of Berry](index:1.1.1, 1.1.4). [1, 4, 5, 6]
* The Outcome: On September 19, 1370, the English breached the walls by mining underneath them, leading to a brutal sack of the city that severely damaged its standing. [1, 7]
To explore more about this era, would you like to discuss:
* The military tactics or the controversial aftermath
* Other famous battles of the Hundred Years' War
Share your choice to dive deeper into medieval history.
[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Limoges)
[2] [https://en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Limoges)
[3] [https://kids.kiddle.co](https://kids.kiddle.co/Siege_of_Limoges)
[4] [https://en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Limoges)
[5] [https://kids.kiddle.co](https://kids.kiddle.co/Siege_of_Limoges)
[6] [https://uts.nipissingu.ca](https://uts.nipissingu.ca/muhlberger/froissart/limoges.htm)
[7] [https://professor-moriarty.com](https://professor-moriarty.com/info/thisday/sack-limoges-1370)
What was the town before French and English?
Before it became a contested territory between the French and the English, Limoges was a major Gallo-Roman city known as Augustoritum [index:1.1.6]. [1, 2, 3]
* The Name: Founded around 10 BC by the Roman Emperor Augustus, its name roughly translates to "Augustus's Ford" because it was built near a crossing point of the Vienne River [index:1.1.9]. [1, 4, 5, 6, 7]
* The Architecture: As a thriving Roman center, it featured classic imperial amenities, including a large amphitheater, public baths, a forum, and a Senate [index:1.1.6]. [2, 8, 9, 10, 11]
* The People: It was established as the capital for the Lemovices, a local Celtic/Gallic tribe [index:1.1.6]. It is from the name of this ancient tribe that the modern word "Limoges" eventually evolved [index:1.1.6]. [8, 10, 12]
If you are interested in this earlier era, we can explore:
* What daily life was like in the Gallo-Roman period
* How the town transitioned into a medieval religious center under Saint Martial [index:1.1.6]
Let me know what area of history you want to look at next!
[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limoges)
[2] [https://thegoodlifefrance.com](https://thegoodlifefrance.com/limoges-ancient-city-with-a-remarkable-history/)
[3] [https://mapy.com](https://mapy.com/en/?source=osm&id=36179)
[4] [https://www.kupi.com](https://www.kupi.com/en/explore/france/limoges/history)
[5] [https://en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limoges)
[6] [https://en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limoges)
[7] [https://www.francecomfort.com](https://www.francecomfort.com/en/sights/1144/limousin)
[8] [https://www.britannica.com](https://www.britannica.com/place/Limoges)
[9] [https://chateaudelasfonds.com](https://chateaudelasfonds.com/what-is-limoges-famous-for/)
[10] [https://www.offbeatfrance.com](https://www.offbeatfrance.com/limoges-france.html)
[11] [https://www.solosophie.com](https://www.solosophie.com/limoges-france/)
[12] [https://en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limoges)
It means it was independent after the end of Roman rule?
No, Limoges did not become a fully independent city-state after Roman rule collapsed [index:1.1.2]. Instead, it cycled through several kingdoms and feudal rulers during the Early Middle Ages [index:1.1.2]: [1]
* Germanic Invasions: Due to barbarian raids, the population abandoned the wide-open Roman plains of Augustoritum [index:1.1.8]. They moved to a nearby, easily fortifiable hill (Puy Saint-Étienne) [index:1.1.8]. [2, 3]
* New Kingdoms: Control of Limoges and the surrounding Limousin region quickly transferred to the Visigoths and then to the Merovingian and Carolingian Franks [index:1.1.2].
* Feudal Division: As central royal power weakened, the region split into independent local seigneuries (lordships) [index:1.1.2].
* A Divided Town: By the 10th century, Limoges was split into two completely separate, fiercely competitive, walled settlements [index:1.1.7]:
* La Cité: Controlled entirely by the local Catholic Bishop [index:1.1.7].
* Le Château: Controlled by the secular Viscounts of Limoges [index:1.2.8]. [2, 4]
These local rulers operated under the broader, shifting authority of the Dukes of Aquitaine [index:1.1.1]. The city wasn't officially unified into a single town until 1792 [index:1.1.3].
If you want to continue exploring, we can look into:
* How the Viscounts of Limoges interacted with the Kings of France
* The power dynamics between the Bishop's city and the Viscount's castle [index:1.1.7] [4]
Which path would you like to take?
[1] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2n47gp/when_did_the_roman_empire_end_does_it_still_exist/)
[2] [https://www.1001shops.com](https://www.1001shops.com/Blog/history-of-limoges-france)
[3] [https://en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_III_%28Western_Roman_emperor%29)
[4] [https://www.destination-limoges.com](https://www.destination-limoges.com/en/la-destination/incontournables/limoges-ville-art-et-histoire/)
How was both? Did that guarantee liberty for the two?
The unique dual system in Limoges did not guarantee peace or liberty for either side [index:1.1.5]. Instead, it created centuries of fierce rivalry, economic competition, and political vulnerability [index:1.1.2]. [1, 2]
The system operated through a deep divide, leaving both districts vulnerable to exploitation by larger powers [index:1.1.2]:
## 1. Constant Internal Rivalry
The two districts were separated by a mere 100 meters, but functioned as completely different worlds [index:1.1.4].
* La Cité (The Bishop's Town): This was the religious hub centered around the [St. Étienne Cathedral](index:1.1.1, 1.2.1). It was populated heavily by clergy, artisans, and harbor workers operating along the Vienne River [index:1.1.2]. [3]
* Le Château (The Viscount's Town): This was the bustling, wealthy commercial center [index:1.1.5]. It grew around the powerful, fortified [Abbey of Saint Martial](index:1.1.1, 1.1.5) and was ruled secularly by the Viscounts [index:1.1.1].
Rather than cooperating, the Bishop and the Viscount constantly fought over tax revenues, judicial rights, and territorial boundaries [index:1.3.1].
## 2. A Fight for Civil Liberties
The division actually delayed true municipal freedom for the citizens [index:1.1.3]. In other medieval French cities, a unified middle class could successfully demand a "commune" (self-governing charter) from their lord [index:1.1.3]. In Limoges, the citizens were divided under two opposing feudal masters [index:1.1.5]. It wasn't until the 13th century that the wealthy merchants of Le Château finally forced the Abbot and Viscount to accept elected local officials (consuls) [index:1.3.1]. La Cité remained tightly bound to the Bishop's rule [index:1.1.1].
## 3. Exploded by Foreign Powers
This fragmentation proved fatal during the Hundred Years' War. Because they did not operate as one cohesive unit, the two halves made separate political moves:
* In 1370, the Bishop of La Cité secretly switched allegiance to the French [index:1.1.7].
* This treason enraged [Edward the Black Prince](index:1.1.1, 1.1.10), who marched his English army to the city [index:1.1.2]. [4, 5]
Because La Cité was isolated and lacked the unified defensive backing of the entire region, its walls were easily undermined [index:1.1.7]. The resulting English sack completely devastated the Bishop's town, while Le Château watched from behind its own walls [index:1.1.2]. [6]
The system of two rulers brought friction rather than freedom, and the city was only legally joined into a single municipality in 1792 during the French Revolution [index:1.1.1]. [2]
If you would like to explore further, we can look into:
* How the Abbey of Saint Martial became an independent powerhouse [index:1.1.1]
* The economic boom of medieval Limoges through its world-famous champlevé enamel production [1]
*
Which angle would you like to investigate?
[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocese_of_Limoges)
[2] [https://www.kupi.com](https://www.kupi.com/en/explore/france/limoges/history)
[3] [https://www.les-castels.co.uk](https://www.les-castels.co.uk/blog/post/discover-limoges-a-city-of-history)
[4] [https://en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Limoges)
[5] [https://www.historic-uk.com](https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Hundred-Years-War-Caroline-Phase/)
[6] [https://aprilmunday.wordpress.com](https://aprilmunday.wordpress.com/tag/siege-of-limoges/)
Was any connected to Crusader Orders? Did the fight in arms or politics against each other?
## 1. Connection to Crusader Orders
Neither district was founded or run by Crusader Orders, but both La Cité and Le Château maintained strong political and financial ties to them [index:1.1.2]. [1, 2]
The Limousin region was a massive recruiting ground and financial pipeline for the Crusades [index:1.1.2]. The Knights Templar and the Knights Hospitaller established several commanderies (estate headquarters) directly in and around Limoges [index:1.1.2]. [3, 4]
* The Templars: They used Limoges as a banking hub to transfer the city’s wealthy enamel revenues and donations to the Holy Land [index:1.3.1]. [5, 6]
* The Hospitallers: They operated pilgrim houses and hospitals along the heavily traveled Camino de Santiago pilgrimage route passing through the city [index:1.2.1]. [3, 7]
While these warrior monks did not govern the city, they were powerful local landlords who frequently influenced the politics of both the Bishop and the Viscount [index:1.1.3].
------------------------------
## 2. How They Fought: Arms vs. Politics
The centuries-long cold war between La Cité (the Bishop) and Le Château (the Viscount) was fought primarily through fierce political and economic sabotage, but it frequently spilled over into actual armed conflict [index:1.1.5]. [8]
## The Political & Economic War
Most of their daily warfare was fought behind desks, using borders and taxes as weapons [index:1.3.1]:
* Tax Wars: Le Château was a wealthy merchant center [index:1.1.5]. The Abbot and Viscount routinely blocked traders from entering La Cité or heavily taxed goods crossing the Vienne River bridges [index:1.1.2]. [8]
* Legal Sabotage: The Bishop and Viscount ran completely separate court systems [index:1.3.1]. If a criminal from La Cité fled 100 meters into Le Château, the Viscount's guards would often protect them just to spite the Bishop's authority.
* Propaganda Walls: They didn't just build stone walls to keep out foreign armies; they built walls between each other to strictly control human traffic, markets, and the spread of political influence [index:1.1.5]. [9]
## The Armed Conflicts
When diplomacy failed, they took up arms [index:1.1.3]:
* The Internecine Wars: Throughout the 12th and 13th centuries, disputes over land ownership led to private mercenary armies being hired by both sides. Riots routinely broke out along the boundary lines, where partisan mobs attacked each other's property.
* The 1370 Passive Betrayal: The ultimate weapon used between them was shifting military alliances. During the 1370 English siege, the Bishop's town (La Cité) secretly switched sides to the French [index:1.1.7]. Rather than sending soldiers to help defend their neighbors, the secular leaders of Le Château deliberately pulled back, locked their gates, and watched the English army brutally obliterate the Bishop's half of the city [index:1.1.2]. [10, 11]
They did not fight as a unified front against a common enemy; they used external armies as tools to weaken each other [index:1.1.2]. [10]
------------------------------
If you'd like to explore this dynamic further, we could look into:
* The exact financial network the Templars operated in the region [index:1.3.1]
* How the consuls (local merchant governments) of Le Château eventually stripped power from the Viscounts [index:1.3.1]
What aspect of this medieval rivalry interests you most?
[1] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/59hond/how_did_the_different_knight_orders_ie/)
[2] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/fo4/comments/856b16/the_truth_about_the_brotherhood_of_steel/)
[3] [https://www.brive-tourisme.com](https://www.brive-tourisme.com/en/hospitaller-templar-heritage/)
[4] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/cqzk9t/what_did_the_hospitallers_templars_and_other/)
[5] [https://monarchies.fandom.com](https://monarchies.fandom.com/wiki/Knights_Templar)
[6] [https://en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trials_of_the_Knights_Templar)
[7] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4yb2yu/was_the_concept_of_combat_medics_and_field/)
[8] [https://www.history.com](https://www.history.com/articles/who-were-the-knights-templar)
[9] [https://aprilmunday.wordpress.com](https://aprilmunday.wordpress.com/2017/02/12/the-sack-of-limoges/)
[10] [https://en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusader_states)
[11] [https://englishhistoryauthors.blogspot.com](https://englishhistoryauthors.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-horrors-of-war-black-prince-and.html)
Now that we found another group to the four being busy in the region, is there another one we missed?
Yes, we actually missed the most important "rising" power that turned the four-way struggle into a five-way war: the Bourgeoisie and their Guilds [index:2.1.9]. [1]
While the Bishop, the Viscount, the Monks, and the Crusader Orders were busy using feudal and religious law against one another, a wealthy, fiercely independent middle class of merchants and craftsmen grew right under their feet [index:2.1.9]. [1]
They became a powerhouse faction in the region by seizing control of two main areas:
## 1. The Consuls (The Merchant Government)
By the 12th and 13th centuries, the wealthy merchants of Le Château grew tired of their money being drained by the Viscount and the Abbey's constant tax wars.
* The Takeover: They formed a powerful civil league and forced both the Viscount and the Abbot to recognize them [index:1.3.1].
* The Power Shift: They established an independent corporate council of elected officials called Consuls.
* The Result: The Consuls took over the city’s defense, built their own town hall, collected their own taxes, and maintained their own militia. They effectively stripped the Viscount of his political grip on the commercial heart of the city.
## 2. The Corporation of Butchers (La Confrérie des Bouchers)
If the Consuls ran the politics, the Butchers ran the streets [index:2.1.5]. Because the surrounding Limousin province was the cattle-rearing center of France, meat was the absolute lifeblood of the medieval economy [index:2.1.9]. [2]
* The Guild: The meat trade was controlled by a single, tightly-knit, hyper-wealthy dynasty of families centered around the [Rue de la Boucherie (Butcher's Quarter)](index:2.1.3, 2.1.5).
* The Muscle: The butchers weren't just shopkeepers; they were fiercely territorial, heavily armed, and functioned as an elite municipal mafia [index:2.1.9]. They funded their own private chapels, successfully defied the Bishop's orders, and possessed enough political clout and physical muscle to sway local elections and intimidate noble rulers.
With the addition of the Bourgeois Consuls and Guilds, the chessboard of medieval Limoges was a volatile arena where the Nobility (Viscount), the Church (Bishop), the Monks (Abbey), the Warrior Monks (Templars/Hospitallers), and the Middle Class (Butchers/Consuls) all wrestled for supremacy.
Would you like to take a closer look at:
* The Butcher's Quarter and how this family dynasty ruled Limoges for centuries [index:2.1.3]?
* How the French Crown eventually used these merchants to strip away all feudal power? [2]
[1] [https://www.worldhistory.org](https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1960/the-three-estates-of-pre-revolutionary-france/)
[2] [https://easyhiker.co.uk](https://easyhiker.co.uk/limoges-the-chicago-of-medieval-france/)
Imagine you vote and they make laws for you. Police comes and I drop: "I wasn't voting. make your way or a good argument. For you, it better be a great one" tipping my batch.
However:
The takeover of power by the merchants in Limoges was rarely fought with open battlefield armies, but it was highly volatile, coercive, and punctuated by intense street violence [index:1.1.3]. [1]
They did not launch a full-scale military revolution; instead, they used financial strangulation, tactical riots, and armed intimidation to force the feudal lords to step down.
## 1. The Strategy: Coercion over Warfare
The merchants of Le Château (the secular district) used their immense wealth as a political weapon [index:1.1.5]. [2]
* The Leverage: The Abbot of Saint Martial and the Viscount of Limoges were chronically in debt due to funding Crusades and local wars [index:1.1.2]. [3]
* The Squeeze: The merchants and guilds explicitly refused to grant loans or pay emergency taxes unless the lords surrendered administrative rights [index:1.3.1].
## 2. Blood on the Streets: Riot and Arson
When financial pressure wasn't enough, the guilds deployed physical violence.
* The Armed Milita: The merchants and craftsmen formed their own armed neighborhood watches, heavily backed by the muscle of the Butcher's Guild [index:2.1.5, 2.1.9].
* The Riots: Throughout the 12th and 13th centuries, when the Abbey tried to impose unpopular taxes, the merchant militia rioted. They regularly assaulted the Abbot’s tax collectors, blocked noble guards from entering the marketplaces, and targeted the property of the lords' supporters.
* Burning the Records: In several uprisings across French communes, merchants deliberately burned down the feudal registries that documented the taxes and labor they legally "owed" to their lords. [4]
## 3. The Recognition: How it Became Official
Military conquest didn't secure their safety; royal legal validation did [index:1.3.5].
The merchants knew the Viscount or the Abbot could hire mercenaries to crush them at any moment. To prevent this, the newly formed Consul Government used their money to buy the protection of the ultimate power in the land: the King of France [index:1.3.5].
The French Crown was eager to weaken the independent feudal nobility. In exchange for massive cash payments and political loyalty, the King granted the merchants a Charter of Franchise. This official royal document legally recognized the Consuls' right to self-govern, render justice, and man their own city walls—making any physical retaliation by the Viscount or Abbot an act of treason against the King.
------------------------------
If you'd like to investigate further, we could look into:
* How the French Kings systematically used these urban charters to destroy the feudal system.
* The exact layout of the medieval defensive walls that the merchants built to protect themselves from their own lords.
*
Let me know which direction you want to take!
[1] [https://kids.kiddle.co](https://kids.kiddle.co/Siege_of_Limoges)
[2] [https://www.1001shops.com](https://www.1001shops.com/Blog/history-of-limoges-france)
[3] [https://aprilmunday.wordpress.com](https://aprilmunday.wordpress.com/tag/siege-of-limoges/)
[4] [https://alphahistory.com](https://alphahistory.com/frenchrevolution/august-4th-decrees/)
Yes, from the perspective of an ordinary medieval person, the [French King](https://www.google.com/search?q=french+king&kgmid=/g/11b6f1dn_q) was absolutely just as bad, greedy, and demanding as any local lord.
The King was not acting out of a desire for liberty or human rights; he was playing the exact same feudal game, just on a much larger scale. When dealing with his own personal lands (the Domaine Royal), the King behaved precisely like the local lords: [1, 2]
## 1. Oppression at Home
In the territories he ruled directly, the King was ruthless. He taxed his own peasants heavily, strictly enforced his own feudal labor requirements, and brutally crushed any merchant communes that tried to rise up against him. He only supported the liberty of towns like Limoges because they belonged to his rivals. [3, 4]
## 2. A Change of Masters
When the King successfully "freed" a town or region from its local viscount or duke, he did not grant them independence. He simply replaced the local tax collector with a royal one. The heavy financial demands remained; the money just traveled further away to Paris. [5, 6, 7, 8]
## 3. Absolute Power, Not Better Power
The ultimate goal of the French Kings was absolute, centralized control. While a local lord was a tyrant you could physically see, talk to, or riot against in the streets, the growing royal bureaucracy was a distant, faceless, and heavily armed machine that was impossible for a single town to resist. [9, 10, 11, 12, 13]
In short, the King didn't destroy the oppression of the feudal system; he simply monopolized it. [14]
------------------------------
Since we have traced this from the Siege of Limoges all the way to the fall of the feudal system, where would you like to go next? We can look at:
* The clash between King Philip Augustus and Richard the Lionheart over French lands.
* How the everyday life of a peasant differed under a King versus a local Lord. [15, 16, 17, 18]
Let me know what you'd like to explore!
[1] [https://www.linkedin.com](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/causes-french-revolution-political-science-view)
[2] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/CrusaderKings/comments/la1wmx/why_do_people_complain_about_border_gore_and/)
[3] [https://www.mrbevan.com](https://www.mrbevan.com/03-france-absolute-monarchy--revolution.html)
[4] [https://link.springer.com](https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/978-1-349-23848-4.pdf)
[5] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistory/comments/ld8jf4/can_someone_explain_the_historical_differences/)
[6] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/gwzh4u/im_a_medieval_european_king_and_a_town_of/)
[7] [https://thehistoryofengland.co.uk](https://thehistoryofengland.co.uk/blog/2023/03/20/at-a-gallop-1629-1638-the-personal-rule/)
[8] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/r5s64b/could_william_the_conqueror_conquered_france/)
[9] [https://courses.lumenlearning.com](https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-arthistory2/chapter/louis-xiv-versailles/)
[10] [https://studyrocket.co.uk](https://studyrocket.co.uk/revision/a-level-history-wjec/france-ancien-regime-to-napoleon-1715-1815/the-nature-of-absolute-government-in-france)
[11] [https://www.slideshare.net](https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/absolutism-and-absolute-monarchs/250469320)
[12] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalScience/comments/fmua32/is_is_feudalism_inherently_fascist_or_fascistic/)
[13] [https://academic.oup.com](https://academic.oup.com/past/article/271/1/273/8140336)
[14] [https://stpaulcenter.com](https://stpaulcenter.com/posts/st-louis-and-a-most-christian-kingdom)
[15] [https://www.britannica.com](https://www.britannica.com/biography/Rigord)
[16] [https://www.thefrenchhistorypodcast.com](https://www.thefrenchhistorypodcast.com/81-the-kings-crusade/)
[17] [https://medium.com](https://medium.com/@feudalismweb/middle-ages-feudal-system-5aa6c4f47258)
[18] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2ea9e4/how_did_the_average_peasant_feel_about_their_king/)
How separate were that Aristocracy from the people in terms of marriage?
In terms of marriage, the medieval aristocracy and the common people lived in two completely separate, non-overlapping worlds.
For the high nobility, marriage was never a matter of romance or personal choice; it was a high-stakes corporate merger and geopolitical treaty [index:1.1.2]. [1, 2, 3, 4]
## 1. The Velvet Curtain: Endogamy
The aristocracy practiced strict endogamy, meaning they only married within their own closed social caste.
* A Different Species: The nobility genuinely viewed themselves as biologically different from commoners, possessing "noble blood" that would be permanently ruined or "polluted" by marrying a peasant or merchant.
* The Legal Barrier: In many regions, if a noble married a commoner, it was considered a morganatic marriage (or a misalliance). The commoner spouse could not inherit the noble titles, and any children born from the union were barred from inheriting the family's fiefs, castles, or wealth. [5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
## 2. Wealthy Merchants: The Only Exception
As the centuries progressed and the bourgeoisie (like the wealthy merchants and butchers of Limoges) grew richer than the nobility, the rules bent slightly—but only out of desperation.
* Cash for Class: A bankrupt lord with a crumbling castle might swallow his pride and marry his son to the daughter of a hyper-wealthy merchant.
* The Trade-Off: The merchant family gained social prestige and a title, while the noble family gained the cash injection needed to pay off debts or fund a war. However, the old aristocracy still looked down on these families as "new money" gatecrashers. [10, 11]
## 3. Church Control and the Incest Loophole
Because the noble dating pool was so small, aristocrats constantly ran into a major roadblock: the Catholic Church's strict laws on consanguinity (incest). [12, 13, 14, 15]
* The Rule: For much of the Middle Ages, the Church banned couples who shared a common ancestor within seven (and later four) generations from marrying. [16]
* The Solution: Since all European nobles were related, they had to constantly buy expensive "papal dispensations" (special permission from the Pope) to get married. [17, 18]
* The Weaponized Loophole: If a King or Duke wanted to get rid of his wife years later (since the Church banned divorce), he would suddenly claim they were too closely related, declare the marriage void based on consanguinity, and remarry a new political ally. [19]
## 4. Commoner Marriage: Freedom Through Poverty
Ironically, because peasants and ordinary townspeople had no land, titles, or political treaties to protect, they enjoyed far more personal liberty in marriage than kings and duchesses. While they still needed their local lord's permission to marry (and often had to pay a small tax called a merchet), commoners generally chose their own partners based on affection, proximity, and basic economic compatibility. [20, 21, 22]
------------------------------
Would you like to explore:
* A famous example of noble marriage politics, like Eleanor of Aquitaine’s marriages to the Kings of France and England [index:1.1.1]?
* How the Church regulated the daily sex and family lives of ordinary medieval peasants?
Let me know what path you'd like to take!
[1] [https://www.psychologytoday.com](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/stronger-the-broken-places/202012/brief-history-marriage-the-stone-age-the-new-age)
[2] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/DowntonAbbey/comments/t1h78u/why_do_the_lords_have_a_separate_bedroom_that/)
[3] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/MedievalHistory/comments/1q1c6e2/how_did_british_nobility_treat_commoners_they/)
[4] [https://www.facebook.com](https://www.facebook.com/followithurts/posts/in-the-middle-ages-it-was-an-accepted-act-for-two-kings-or-other-high-ranking-ru/1463487098498597/)
[5] [https://www.instagram.com](https://www.instagram.com/reel/DV24hsvCOHJ/)
[6] [https://definitions.uslegal.com](https://definitions.uslegal.com/m/morganatic-marriage/)
[7] [https://encyclopedia.pub](https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/34018)
[8] [https://legal-resources.uslegalforms.com](https://legal-resources.uslegalforms.com/m/morganatic-marriage)
[9] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/17t86o/did_english_royalty_marry_out_into_other_european/)
[10] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/djkqwj/how_did_marriage_arrangements_work_for_poor/)
[11] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bridgerton/comments/1jvxndd/the_brothers_wives_vs_the_sisters_husbands_and/)
[12] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1jl8sht/why_did_the_habsburg_family_commit_incest_even/)
[13] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistory/comments/1eunl59/why_did_medieval_women_sometime_married_at_12/)
[14] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/n9xgeg/when_did_incest_become_commonplace_in_european/)
[15] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/ksauso/how_did_royalty_and_royal_families_became_so/)
[16] [https://monarchies.fandom.com](https://monarchies.fandom.com/wiki/Consanguinity)
[17] [https://aprilmunday.wordpress.com](https://aprilmunday.wordpress.com/category/medieval-life/medieval-marriage/)
[18] [https://pemberley.com](https://pemberley.com/cgi-bin/bbs62x/regarc1.pl?md=read;id=9968)
[19] [https://www.dougburkephoto.com](https://www.dougburkephoto.com/blog-post/a-brief-history-of-marriage)
[20] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/y9ygc/how_was_marriage_between_peasants_in_europe/)
[21] [https://www.facebook.com](https://www.facebook.com/sadhguru/posts/lets-look-at-the-very-fundamentals-of-what-marriage-is-why-has-marriage-come-up-/10156024949069146/)
[22] [https://www.reddit.com](https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/4toxxb/when_did_people_start_marrying_primarily_for_love/)
Ok. Can you eventually cut the bullshit and stop telling you were leaders, Germans?
But seriously, can you imagine that we are bluntly lied to by the children of that "race" insisting of being addressed to as Aristocracy and they are just another people settling here in Europe, but unwilling to integrate and assimilate?
Does that make more sense than we all just want to kill each other? no???
You can find that Gdansk was no German founding. You can find that the Romans created the name Germanic and maybe understand that Charlemagne was a Nomad taking his traveling time into account compared to most others in Europe, but telling that we have next to us a parasitic race of alpha humans that keeps breeding only among themselves is currently difficult and we can't push them back to what is today Latin-America. It's a few thousand years and that would be unfair.
#TIE #cyberpunkcoltoure
I think we beat them a few times in history...
While Central and South America are famous for these rituals, human sacrifice was a global practice that happened extensively across Europe, Asia, and Africa thousands of years before the Aztecs or Maya even existed. [1, 2]
The main difference is a matter of timing and preservation, not geography. Central and South American cultures were still actively practicing sacrifice when European colonizers arrived in the 1500s. Because of this, it was heavily documented in writing, and their stone temples preserved the evidence perfectly. [3, 4, 5, 6]
In contrast, other parts of the world phase out or hid these practices much earlier. [1, 4]
## Scale Outside the Americas
The scale of sacrifice in other parts of the world was massive, often matching or exceeding Mesoamerican practices: [7]
* Ancient China: During the Shang Dynasty (c. 1600–1046 BCE), mass human sacrifice was a massive state industry. At their capital, Yinxu, archaeologists have found the remains of more than 13,000 sacrificed humans. Most were decapitated or buried alive in groups of 50 to accompany dead kings. [8]
* Ancient Egypt: Long before the pyramids were built, early Pharaohs practiced "retainer sacrifice". When Pharaoh Hor-Aha died around 3100 BCE, dozens of his servants, officials, and even dogs were killed and buried with him to serve him in the afterlife. [9, 10, 11]
* Ancient Iraq (Mesopotamia): In the Royal Tombs of Ur (c. 2500 BCE), archaeologists found entire court entourages—soldiers, musicians, and maids—who drank poison together to follow their dead queen into the next world. [12, 13]
* West Africa: In kingdoms like Benin and Ashanti, large-scale sacrifice was practiced well into the 19th century. Hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of people were sacrificed during the funeral rites of a king or during annual customs to honor royal ancestors. [14]
## The Global Timeline Shift
Historically, the practice of human sacrifice followed a similar evolutionary path across different continents, shifting over time:
[ Prehistory - Bronze Age ] ------> [ Iron Age (c. 1000 BCE) ] ------> [ 16th Century CE ]
Global Prevalence The "Axial Age" Shift The Colonial Era
(Mass sacrifices in China, Major world religions emerge Mesoamerican practices
Egypt, and early Europe) and ban human sacrifice documented by Europeans
During the Iron Age (around the 1st millennium BCE), parts of Europe, Asia, and North Africa went through a massive cultural shift known as the Axial Age. The rise of major philosophical and religious systems—like Buddhism, Confucianism, Judaism, and later Christianity and Islam—strictly outlawed human sacrifice, branding it as barbaric. Animal sacrifice or symbolic rituals (like circumcision or bread-and-wine offerings) were introduced as substitutes. [1, 4, 14]
Because Central and South American civilizations developed in geographic isolation from these specific religious shifts, they maintained their traditional, highly complex sacrificial religions for centuries longer. [15, 16]
If you would like to explore further, you can look into the bog bodies of Northern Europe to see how prehistoric European sacrifices were preserved, or dive into the specific archaeological finds of Shang Dynasty China. [4, 8]
[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice)
[2] [https://bigthink.com](https://bigthink.com/the-past/human-sacrifice-ritual-history/)
[3] [https://www.quora.com](https://www.quora.com/Were-Ancient-Central-and-South-American-cultures-exceptionally-cruel-The-examples-are-repeated-discoveries-of-human-sacrifice)
[4] [https://www.quora.com](https://www.quora.com/Why-was-human-sacrifice-common-in-Mesoamerica-but-not-Europe)
[5] [https://en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice_in_pre-Columbian_cultures)
[6] [https://www.lassennews.com](https://www.lassennews.com/responding-to-jd-vances-false-historical-narrative)
[7] [https://www.lassennews.com](https://www.lassennews.com/responding-to-jd-vances-false-historical-narrative)
[8] [https://knowablemagazine.org](https://knowablemagazine.org/content/article/society/2018/unearthing-secrets-human-sacrifice)
[9] [https://www.livescience.com](https://www.livescience.com/59514-cultures-that-practiced-human-sacrifice.html)
[10] [https://www.bbc.co.uk](https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/british_prehistory/human_sacrifice_01.shtml)
[11] [https://en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_sacrifices)
[12] [https://www.bbc.co.uk](https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/british_prehistory/human_sacrifice_01.shtml)
[13] [https://www.youtube.com](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OqSY7N-lH4)
[14] [https://www.thecollector.com](https://www.thecollector.com/human-sacrifice-throughout-history/)
[15] [https://www.quora.com](https://www.quora.com/Why-was-human-sacrifice-apparently-such-a-large-part-of-pre-Columbian-American-civilizations)
[16] [https://www.quora.com](https://www.quora.com/Why-was-human-sacrifice-so-prevalent-amongst-Mesoamerican-civilizations)
Can we consider, having no data points for an AI, that from all humans only a specific would actively kill without need of defense another human? That practice lasted longest in one region. It must have found most support or strongest defense. IMHO that indicates origin.
Thousands of years before even existed might be even a lie, like who founded Gdansk or Washington's Slaves.
Get it. They did it again. The Germans are just the most bluntly stupid of them...
#bornkings
